White Sox could search harder for one more 2019 success story

Guaranteed Rate Field (Jim Margalus / Sox Machine)

What would you end up calling Rick Hahn’s critique of White Sox fans during his White Sox Talk appearance? “Smackdown” is too harsh, and “patdown” is something else entirely.

“Targeted upbraiding” isn’t as charged, but it’s probably accurate, and it appeared he’d navigated the aftermath of it when Paul Sullivan came swooping in with a column about it on Sunday night.

The podcast appearance was more than a week ago, and Sullivan’s column doesn’t add a whole lot to what we’ve already discussed, except he talked to Houston’s Jeff Luhnow about openly running a Twitter account while overseeing a rebuild. But Sullivan has taken it upon himself to be the BBWAA cardholder who needles entrenched White Sox personnel, and Hahn has opened himself up to it. Hahn couldn’t figure out how to make his actions match his rhetoric, and now he’s lowering the latter to line up with the flatter curve and getting frustrated that fans are frustrated.

If it feels like Hahn’s vent session has hovered over proceedings for too long, it’s business as usual. One hallmark of the White Sox over the years is an inability to replace stale storylines with better ones, and this season is no exception. Sure, 2019 has produced key developments. It’s great that Lucas Giolito and Yoan Moncada have taken massive steps forward and Tim Anderson is maxing out his plate approach. It’s good that Eloy Jiménez is taking his lumps in a noncompetitive season and is showing signs of getting it. Leury García’s done about everything asked of him as an everyday player.

But that’s been about it, and more than that, it’s also been the case since about late May. Dylan Cease’s outings are instructive at this point, but not yet enjoyable, and the White Sox won’t let Nick Madrigal or Luis Robert try to improve the MLB product. The people who defend the front office by saying “nobody liked Giolito last year” aren’t wrong, but a team should also be adding to that list throughout the season.

The Sox really haven’t done it. When it comes to potential 2020 contributors who are more intriguing in late August than they were in late May, we’re looking at Jimmy Cordero, Zack Collins, Yermin Mercedes and Gavin Sheets. Only the first guy is on the 25-man roster, and the other three might play the same position. Even the veterans who provided early bursts of professionalism have faded. Ryan Goins only has five singles over his last 37 at-bats, and Jon Jay is 3-for-33, also with no extra-base hits, and they’ve been leaky on the defensive side of the ball, too.

Perhaps the White Sox are sticking with guys like Jay and Welington Castillo because they’re trying to arrange takers in this new single-deadline environment …

… but the longer they dole out playing time to guys who won’t help in 2020 or beyond, the harder it becomes to isolate the legitimate progress from a greater stagnation. The pace the White Sox have chosen for the rebuild reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg joke:

I wanna mountain climb just to hang out at base camp. You grow a beard, you drink hot chocolate.

“Hey, you going to the top?”

“… Soon.”

Part of me wonders if the Sox haven’t called up Robert due to the blow they would suffer in farm system rankings. I doubt Robert’s rookie eligibility is a driving factor, but it’s harder to sell a rebuild when the team remains several developments away from competing and the farm system is middle-of-the-pack.

But even if the Sox want to preserve the rebuild’s purity as long as they can, they can at least start with giving a hard look at Collins and substantial auditions to Mercedes, Danny Mendick, etc. Maybe they have the shelf life of a Palka or the half-life of Delmoniconium, but I’d like to see at least one more push to add to the list of 2019 success stories with the six weeks remaining. New isn’t always better, except when the lack of novelty is the biggest issue.

Take a second to support Sox Machine on Patreon
75 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
knoxfire30

Just what fans want to hear we cant bring up players like Robert and Madrigal cause a sliver of hope exists thru waivers that we can save a couple mil on Jay or Castillo… good god I hope thats not a real reason but given this ownership group it has to be considered likely.

I mentioned to a friend the other day about prospect rankings, and remember how confident kenny and rick were when they were semi contending but had a terrible farm, that farms didnt mean as much and they could easily have the best farm in baseball if they traded away players x,y,z which was sale, q, eaton, etc. Well they never really got to that top farm spot although they were ver high, and given their poor drafting at the start of the rebuild and some guys graduating they arent going too get there and they didnt stay that long… so I actually do buy that they want to point at Robert and say look at this shiny object he is the 1st, 2nd or 3rd best prospect in baseball and our farm ranks, “x” on BA’s list ect ect

Yolmer

Not really a hot take here, but we could add Eloy to the list of successes by the end of the year. I think he’ll finish with 30+ homers and a more respectable triple slash line by the end of the season assuming he can avoid any other stupid injuries. His season has had a lot of fits and starts, but I think he’ll have a sustained run of greatness until the end of September showing his potential. He’ll make a pretty convincing case that he can be counted on as a middle of the order hitter for next year.

Trooper Galactus

He’s shown flashes of what he can be, but I don’t think even a 30-homer campaign can mask what’s been a pretty awful season.

PauliePaulie

This.

He’s essentially 2018 Daniel Palka right now.

Trooper Galactus

The triple-slash is eerily similar to Palka’s last year. But with the now-juiced ball, Eloy’s production counts for less compared to the league.

Yolmer

Yeah, the injuries have hurt him a lot. His June line was basically .280/.330/.600, and his August line is getting close to that. I think he can slug .550-.600 for the rest of the year, which will go a long way to proving his worth for next season.

Trooper Galactus

His August OPS is almost a full hundred points lower than his June line, so it’s not exactly that close. It’s what would separate him from being a pretty average player to being a star. In this environment, if he isn’t consistently posting an OPS around .850 (figure .260/.350/.500), he’s not going to be particularly good barring serious improvements in his defense.

Yolmer

There is a lot of August left. He seems to have found his groove coming back from the elbow injury the last few games. I think he’d have been much more consistent without the injuries then lag time after the injuries. He always seems like he need some time after the injuries to get back to playing well. I’d agree he is likely ticketed to the DH spot both for lack of defensive value and injury prevention.

Trooper Galactus

I think he’s shown enough to be optimistic, but I keep finding it harder and harder to maintain optimism.

Yolmer

Production wise yes, but obviously not development wise. This is Eloy’s age 22 season; not his age 26 season.

Trooper Galactus

Hence the “right now” part of the comment. Nobody’s arguing he can’t or won’t develop, just that there’s little sugarcoating a pretty bad season from him.

roke1960

I really think part of it is, as long as the rebuild is continuing, the pressure is off Hahn to win. So if Robert and Madrigal and Collins and Mercedes stay down, he can still say “Trust the rebuild process.” And then he can kind of punt on 2020 while these guys stay down. Well, that needs to change now. This team has the potential to be contenders in 2020 IF:
1. They spend big money this offseason on at least on 1 top-end starter and a few quality bats.
2. The players who are expected to contribute in 2020 (Robert, Collins, maybe Madrigal) get a taste of big league pitching this year.
If they don’t do number 2 above, then they can justify not doing number 1, using the excuse we’re not quite ready to compete yet. I’m so sick of this front office’s complacency. Get off your lazy ass, Rick and do something to make this team a contender in 2020! There is no reason for Collins, Robert, Mercedes, Mendick and Moncada to not be in Minnesota tonight.

dwjm3

The question is if there really is any pressure on Hahn at all. I can’t say with 100 percent certainty that Jerry would fire him even if this rebuild fails. It seems like Paxson is on rebuild three. I realize comparisons between the two organizations are somewhat tortured but you can’t help but wonder whether Hahn would be gone.

roke1960

You’re right about that. There’s no urgency for Hahn to act. His job is safe no matter what. So he just doesn’t do anything. Which is the point of Jim’s story. They don’t need another success story in 2019, because nobody above Hahn is pressuring him.

karkovice squad

The question is how insulated from external pressure they are. Evidently they felt compelled to answer Sox Twitter though not take any action.

But other than pro-ownership diehards, who’s just going to continue accepting their line on rebuilding as anything more than PR?

yinkadoubledare

Just love the idea of basically punting 2020 (or at least not bothering to put the team in the best position to step forward significantly) also so that we start actually trying when we only have 3 seasons of Moncada and Giolito control left. Brilliant stuff.

As Cirensica

Very Hahnish…

marquettepark

Punting Hahn
He wants respect from White Sox Fans earn it (as the late John Houseman use to say as pitchman for Smith Barney).

vanillablue

Rebuilds really only mean two things: job security for the GM, and a larger inheritance for the owner’s kids.

Steve

All I want to know is if I’ve been blocked by Rick or not.

PauliePaulie

I think holding at the deadline told the story. Decisions are being made to show incremental improvement in win/loss record, while protecting the idea of a future contender by retarding movement within a top heavy prospect pipeline.
“Hey look, we improved by X # of wins.” “And we haven’t even brought up these 4 yet!”

roke1960

Where is Moncada? He didn’t play yesterday and is not up yet. And who goes on a rehab assignment after missing only 2 weeks? I’m convinced Hahn is intentionally trying to keep the win total down this year so he can say we’re still rebuilding. What he is doing is brutal. That lineup today against the Twins is awful. Jay hitting cleanup? This front office is an absolute joke.

NDSox12

Trying to help Charlotte make the IL playoffs (only half joking).

As Cirensica

This is why I come here everyday and I ditched SSS.

foryourhead

Off topic, of course, but it’s really a shame what’s happened to that place. I had been a reader since 2006-2007 and despite frequent changes it had always been fairly top notch. The few times the quality did wane a bit, there were always funny and amusing commenters to pick up the slack. Now its just cringey from top to bottom.

As Cirensica

To be honest, I haven’t read anything in there in a long while so I can’t comment on the content or quality in there as of late. I did kept going after Jim re-engineered this machine for a v.2 go. SSS was OK, but the quality started to go down a bit. All the sudden there were a lot of contributors, and I got the sensation many things got published as stat pushers….. then I stopped going for good because to be honest, I was just a fan of Jim’s sharp writing, Josh podcasts (I can’t emphasize enough how good they are), pNoles analysis, larry’s posts, and kenWo’s HoF posts. 3 of those came here, kenWon no longer writes there, and larry writes once in a blue moon. So good bye SSS.

Trooper Galactus

I don’t blame SSS so much as SBN. Their practices, if I’m not mistaken, led to the Sox Machine crew’s exodus and is largely what’s prompting the current moderators to shift to a new site.

PauliePaulie

People are leaving SSS?
I haven’t been over there much . It seemed to have become more of a community forum than a blog site.

jorgefabregas

They are putting a lot of their content on a different site now in a response to SBNation cutting their budget in half and disallowing them from posting their Patreon on SSS.

Trooper Galactus

Yup. Basically axed the budget but still expected regular content. Go figure.

PauliePaulie

Wow. Brett throwing shade and the humblebrag around in that comment section.
Wonder what metric he’s using to gauge success?

soxfan

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius

anthonyprinceton

How does James McCann not warrant a mention, one of the best catchers in MLB this year and under team control for 2020? Sure he had a brutal July, but he is having his best month of the season currently, with a slash of .377/.431/.623 and a 180 wRC+. Of the 15 MLB catchers with at least 300 PA’s this year, McCann is 4th in fWAR at 2.3, ahead of others like Wilson Contreras, Gary Sanchez and Buster Posey.

PauliePaulie

Regression concerns. Same as Colome.

vanillablue

Not singling you out, but I am getting pretty sick of the “he’s due for regression” trope. There is actual enjoyment in watching guys play over their head for a month or two.

joewho112

No one is saying “Don’t enjoy it while it last.” They’re saying it doesn’t contribute to optimism for the rebuild. One of the prospects (including Lopez here for argument’s sake) stepping up to add some certainty would help. A guy we all assume won’t stay good does not help.

Trooper Galactus

Not to mention a guy with one year of control and about to enter his 30s should not be considered some sort of bedrock in the rebuild.

Milky✌️

The biggest impact the McCann could have is if the FO had any evidence they knew what they were doing when signing him. We finally got a small win from a major league signing, but unfortunately it doesn’t seem like it’s anything more than “he was a warm body from the bargain bin”

Trooper Galactus

Yeah, you’d like to think they found a diamond in the rough as opposed to lucked into a career year from a cheap guy. That’s what happens when the concurrent offseason moves are trading for Yonder Alonso and signing Kelvin Herrera for two years.

PauliePaulie

There certainly is enjoyment in watching it while it lasts.
But I wouldn’t say they’re development wins.
There’s also a concern the Sox are blinded by it and give out $15mil-$17mil for them to be our starting C and Closer in 2020.

Trooper Galactus

I thought trading Narvaez was a signal they believed in Collins or that they were going to pursue Grandal. Collins might work in a semi-platoon with McCann for a year, but depth at the position is still perilously thin with Zavala scuffing in AAA.

Yolmer

He had a bad July and a very good August so far. I think it is time to put him in the substantially improved category.

karkovice squad

He can be substantially improved and still due for regression. His production isn’t coming the easy way with a 28% K rate, .387 BABIP, and elevated line drive and groundball rates.

Statcast has his closest batting comps as Mondesi, Adames, Dahl, Laureano, and Ryan McMahon. Age and wheels are kind of a bummer compared to that group. And not the meteoric kind of Bummer.

His development was also his own offseason project. And the Sox didn’t sign him expecting this, so it’s more of a happy accident than by design, anyway.

HallofFrank

Even if he regresses, his is still a positive development that makes the 2020 team better. His case seems very different than Colome, to me. 

I don’t think anyone looks at McCann and thinks of him as a .830 OPS/120 wRC+ (2019) guy going forward. But it’s getting just as hard to see him as a .581 OPS/58 wRC+ (2018) guy too. Likely it’s somewhere in the middle, and if we get a league average catcher out of him, that seems like a positive development to me. 

PauliePaulie

?
If he regresses, and remains the Sox primary catcher, they get less production from the spot and the team is worse in 2020.

tommytwonines

So who do you want to catch, PP? Realistically?  

PauliePaulie

Grandal. 4 years $60mil.

If I were filling out an offseason plan today, I’d keep McCann as the back-up C and DH vs. LHP with Collins as the DH vs. RHP.

Trooper Galactus

This is literally the first year of his career he’s been at or above league average. I don’t know why people treat this as a new norm or some sort of balancing of his true talent level when it’s perfectly possible we’re just looking at Avi Garcia circa 2017. And yes, he’s been a positive development, as has Colome, but what good are either of them doing if the team isn’t winning this year or next?

yinkadoubledare

I think the main reason is next year is the last of team control on him, as opposed to the rebuild pieces that are under control through 2023 and beyond. It’s nice to watch someone actually useful at catcher particularly since the Beef signing has turned out horribly. But I don’t think I’d want to sign him to an extension without seeing next year, and he’ll get pricey if he does turn out to have actually come up with a new level of performance.

karkovice squad

McCann is unlikely to be expensive. He’s not going to be in the running for Grandal, B. McCann, Martin, Mauer, or Posey money.

Even with regression he’ll probably be worth whatever he costs as a backup. But McCann on his own isn’t really a tough decision.

The problem is the Sox didn’t give themselves extended looks at Collins, Mercedes, and Zavala at C, 1B, & DH. So they’ve blindfolded themselves for making an optimal choice about what to do about anyone other than Castillo.

Trooper Galactus

McCann is probably gonna make $5-6 million in arbitration. If he isn’t worth that, it means he’s mediocre at best.

karkovice squad

If that.

And Castillo’s not a bad comp for free agency or an extension.

Trooper Galactus

He’s making $2.5 million this season. Going into his final season of arbitration coming off an All-Star campaign, yeah, I think doubling that to $5 million seems likely at a minimum. Figure Avi went from $3 million in 2017 to $6.7 million in 2018 off his All-Star season.

karkovice squad

Because of arb’s reliance on player comps and traditional stats, McCann’s probably in a hole relative to Avi when it comes to the likelihood of doubling his salary.

Trooper Galactus

Catchers with an OPS over .800 are generally in pretty rare air.

karkovice squad

That may be so. But baseball arbitrators care more about HR, R, RBI, SB, and AVG.

lifelongjd

Hate to say it, but I kind of saw Hahn’s point about all the negativity with the fan base. We have had a lot of injuries especially with pitchers and that has set us back. However, the goal was always to compete in 2020 and that is still on track. Bringing up Robert just to satisfy fans seems short sighted.  I feel a lot of tre negativity is based on not signing Machado or Harper, which I count now as a positive (would anyone seriously want either one for the next 10 years at that price point based on the first year of their contracts?). Further, looking at what happened with Kopech last year, maybe waiting to bring up prospects to take advantage of the extra year of control is in fact a smart play. We just lost two years of service for 3 starts for a dismal team not going anywhere. I think we have to be patient and have faith that the FO has a plan and are executing as best as they can with all the setbacks they’ve had. And no, this isn’t a Rick Hahn burner account. 

texag10

Would I like a ~4 WAR left handed hitting RF? Yes, very much so.

lifelongjd

Harper is sitting at 2.5 WAR as of today. So yeah, maybe he reaches 4 this season. Which should be one of his best if not the best seasons that Philly can expect from that deal. For over $30/m. With the limited resources our ownership is willing to commit, seems like the money can be spent in better ways. Machado is at 2.8 BTW. 

roke1960

Ok Rick, we know it’s you. Harper’s average salary is $25million per year. The Sox could have afforded that and still had plenty to spend to further upgrade the roster. They’re just CHEAP. I’m not going to make excuses for their utter ineptitude in signing players. And you shouldn’t either.

roke1960

How much better would Abreu’s numbers be with Harper hitting behind him instead of Alonso, Castillo and McCann?

lifelongjd

Hahaha. I am not disagreeing with the fact they would be better with Harper in the lineup. Or Machado. Or that they are cheap. Those are facts. I was disappointed when they struck out on those guys. All I can say is I am hopeful the plan works.  And that maybe we’re lucky we don’t have Harper in 2026 at $25m when he’s not hitting his weight.  Let’s hope our young prospects deliver. 

roke1960

Yes, let’s hope they do. And supplementing them with a few solid free agents this winter would help

Trooper Galactus

STOP TALKING ABOUT 2026 AND ACT LIKE THERE’S SIX SEASONS BETWEEN NOW AND THEN!!!

egib52

You aren’t ok with 17 years of no playoffs if they make it in 2026???

burning-phoneix

Who cares what Abreu’s numbers would be? We don’t sign players for 30+ million USD to increase Abreu’s OPS by 30 points or whatever. 30 Million USD players need to hit like All-Stars for the majority of their contracts.

And for a fanbase that constantly chiding the FO for being “behind the times” analytically to chide the FO for not believing in lineup protection (which analytics discount) is ironic.

hitlesswonder

Fernando Tatis Jr. is at 4.2 WAR. So, while we are congratulating Hahn on not spending big money on players who are merely excellent like Machado and Harper, we should also keep in mind that he made that trade.

karkovice squad

The Yankees’ injuries really held them back this year.

lifelongjd

Trooper, I wasn’t looking forward to spending money in 2026. The Sox have a very frugal owner who doesn’t throw money around so unfortunately resources are limited. So yeah, having an extra $25-30m in 2026 May come in handy. My point is there is a negative line of thinking throughout Sox fandom and some of it stems from them not overpaying for two players that may not deliver on the investment the teams have made in them. Not all moves are going to be winners (Tatis was an utter disaster) but the whole point is that this is a complete tear down and an investment in youth and development.  Patience is a requirement and signing free agents or pushing prospects ahead too early can impede development. Constantly criticizing the FO for sticking to the plan just seems short sighted. There’s a lot of talent in the system, let’s hope they hit on a few and can develop together into a competitive team. 

egib52

I would, I would love to have Harper and/or Machado. Who are the 7 (non-catcher) position players that are better than those two?

jorgefabregas

Jason Benetti went on effectively wild to discuss having guest stars in the booth
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/effectively-wild-episode-1419-benettis-booth/

TCBullfrog

You don’t find Lopez more intriguing in August than in May?